The question is whether being derived from divine archetype F is the same in F-in-X and F-in-Y (in the sense of non-numerical identity). And while Rand was an entertaining novelist I regard her forays into philosophy as no better than any other amateur effort. For Aquinas, a form fits into the "incomplete constituent principle" framework, while an essence refers to the substance. Perhaps I should have said something that cannot be tested rather than proven.I used the multiverse because there is no known experiment that can address the hypothesis. Isn’t That would be like a theist saying to an atheist, “Look, we both agree that the universe is ordered. A specific frequency is not a colour no matter how much "information" it is supposed to be carrying/conveying. His stuff on not being able to predicate actions is also quite wrong. Each color has a quite definite place in that system and its own set of relations to all other colors; there's nothing arbitrary or "slippery" about it.Exactly. The EM spectrum is just the set of electromagnetic frequencies from F1 to F2. I recommend this translation of the relevant ST passage to get a sense of (what I take to be) Aquinas's theory of descending likeness. What is it about F that brings it closer to G and farther from H? ]"This approach appears to work only because it implicitly assumes that "red" is a common factor. It cannot be simultaneously an analogy and a metaphor, because they are different.I wasn't trying to have it both ways. It's not something physical.Is there some school, of which I am not aware, which holds this?The school would be Thomism, or any form of Aristotelianism. and I agree. It simply isn't true that those who dislike Rand as literature are those who disagree with her. Among his widely influential teachings, St. Thomas Aquinas addressed the very core and starting point of reality, i.e., what does it mean to exist? Socrates is not Plato. Aquinas … But “Some It is this blunder on Gilson's part that causes him to throw the commentatorial tradition under the bus and to give the impression that Thomism died with Thomas and was only rediscovered in the 20th Century by Gilson. Therefore, you would have as many likeness types as likeness tokens with nothing in common. To my thinking, as long as the “nest of primordial relations between things” remains constant, then being a part of the nest of primordial relations between things is something that all things have in common, and could be the partial identity between them.Or am I missing something here? X must exist on one part of the hierarchy and Y must exist on another part of the hierarchy, and depending upon their positions in the hierarchy, they bear a certain proximity to one another. For example, we may never know all the ins and outs of what it means to be a tree, but we certainly have the form of treeness in our intellect, and the form of treeness must exist in the divine intellect as the ideal archetype of treeness from which all trees are derived from. This is held to overcome his one-dimensional, black/white characters (as Dickens's humor is also said to do, for his slightly more nuanced ones.) @ScottThanks for proving your point. Hatred on artistic grounds, for a given artist, is so much more common in lit, than in other fields, as to change the terms. such that…” and Cajetan’s as something like “It is not the case that there is If like1 and like2 (relations) were alike (related), then they would be alike through themselves rather than through some like3. If all functioning things are impermanent and subject to change, then to say that any thing exists is a working approximation, which really means 'this stage of a process is sufficiently long-lived to appear stable for our purposes'. Their becoming is still a transition from one state of being to another--or from one state of being into non-being. In my opinion, something like this account is necessary to interpret Aquinas's theory of identity. 2. (Orwell himself, when not writing about Commies, has little to say a conservative can accept, but still gets by.) This is not an argument worth taking seriously. For example, a square would have four sides even if there was never a square in existence, simply by virtue of the divine idea of squareness, and that divine idea’s relationship to other divine ideas into a coherent whole. And you seem to be in the dark about what "likeness" entails, here. Most attempts to dismiss her work as bad literature is due to people who want to hate her writing because they hate her views; ironic, since her writing is the result of the fact that Rand -- who was not exactly open-minded -- loved Hugo's writing despite hating his views.Two of Rand's works, Anthem and Atlas Shrugged, are also technically science fiction (the first far-future and the second near-future); and when read as such they are head and shoulders they compare very well with more standard science fiction classics. (More than some of the intros to phil of mind I know of that just sketch it toward the end.). He clearly affirms that they do.There is no archetype F within the divine intellect. In other words, X resembles Y iff X and Y have something in common. "Just for the sake of argument, the same reasoning can be applied to God. F-in-Socrates isn't really an "F"; it's simply one of Socrates's traits. You have three individuals, X, Y and Z. X is F, Y is F, and Z is G. How many forms are there? (I'm ignoring, because it's irrelevant to the main issue, the fact that I was speaking of qualia rather than electromagnetic radiation. Would those “ways” have to be the same in each form?Yes, they would. What Does "Existence" Mean in Mathematics? Again, why isn’t an indeterminate attribute the same in both athletes? Whatever our belief, ideology or taste, we all believe that we can find happiness if we search hard enough, and we pursue it like a cure. Rand’s You keep appealing yourself to relations you can't reduce any further, so you have no grounds for complaining about it in the resemblance case.But once you have erected a boundary between the “unique resemblance relations” that characterize colors, and the “unique resemblance relations” that characterize non-colors, then you can certainly say that what the “unique resemblance relations” that characterize colors have in common is that they all occur within the boundary or demarcationAnd, again, the resemblance theorist will point out that this just states a resemblance. 3)Given what I wrote above, I think that what he means is that the form is neither (numerically) one nor (formally) many. A, B, C and D all resemble one another. statement and Cajetan’s sound very odd at first blush. Indeed, for Aristotle, even matter is intelligible, since it either possesses a form in the case of proximate matter, or is the limit, in a sort of Calculus sense, of removing form in the case of prime matter, and thus, is more of a "being of reason" than a real being.In fact, I'm almost tempted to call Aristotle/Aquinas's postition, if for nothing else than for the fun, Empiricalist-Idealism, given their common emphasis on all knowledge being from the senses on the one hand, and their stanch stance on the intelligibility of reality and universals on the other. If a relation relates through itself, then the likeness of the two likenesses would have to relate through itself, and not through the other two relations. Possible candidates might be certain mathematical entities such as Pi.So for everyday purposes 'existence' is a useful fiction that doesn't really exist, though non-mundane mathematical existence may exist in some abstruse Platonic realm. "Well, they both lay eggs, for instance." For example, if you say that the form of dogness is similar to the form of humanity, then would on “way” that they are similar be that they are both species of animal? "The point of 'Existence exists.' When I spoke of "numerically one" I had Aquinas' meaning in mind (whatever that be). implicitly committed to the view that the order of mind-independent reality can But thoughts about pure form do not exist, even as useful fictions.That would leave you with only F itself.Which was my point. I'm not sure what parts are speculation about what Rand *might* have meant, and what parts are actual statements of objectivism. Aquinas's theory of universals is very strange. Formal sameness is an abstract way of describing the process by which information of like content can appear in multiple locations, as Klima's example of the book in Vallicella's post illustrates. Pretty basic.Second, what would the resemblance theorist say about the relationship between the forms in creation and the forms in the divine intellect?The divine intellect does not contain forms. "Sure there can. be read off from the order of concepts. "She most certainly did not believe that "the only human relationships worth having are based on the exchange of dollars. To give another example, each square thing possesses squareness (otherwise, in what way would it be a square thing?). In other words, formal identity between X and Y is where the same kind of form is present in X and Y, albeit in different instantiations. Anon,The distinction between numerical and formal sameness is one that dguller is taking from the Summa. I have no objection in principle to an analysis of similarity that bottoms out in irreducible relations of resemblance, and I think color is one of many plausible examples.So I'd say that I accept the resemblance theory for a limited set of cases—namely, a (possibly proper) subset of those cases in which two substances or particulars have similar-but-nonidentical attributes. In that case, 'existence exists' is true, since existence is, on that ontology, an object. In politics I'm an arch-traditionalist and Tory, wistfully partial even to the Old Cause, and in religion and philosophy a Christian Platonist and a somewhat frustrated member of the Church of England. Rank:There aren't any others. (And I think it's properly regarded as a form of idealism. comes to is simply the point that, And as it "Here's Bill Vallicella trying to make sense of that very thing. Because one of the basic concepts of first-order logic is that of existence, as codified by the existential quantifier “(∃x),” one might suppose that there is little room left for any separate philosophical problem of existence. Do you somehow think that Twain's comments on Austen were meant to be taken deadly seriously? I think that is why Aquinas calls the divine ideas “forms” at ST 1.15.1, because they are what accounts for what kinds of things substances can be or are by virtue of their status as ideal archetypes or models of the kings of things that substances can be. Everything has to be consistent and must fit together perfectly and precisely. In other words, you are correct that F-in-X resembles F-in-Y, but are incorrect that this is a basic and irreducible fact that cannot be analyzed further, because what accounts for F-in-X’s resemblance to F-in-Y is the fact that they are partially identical in that both originate in one and the same divine idea F, which means that F-in-X is formally identical to F-in-Y iff F-in-X and F-in-Y originate in one and the same divine idea F. I don’t see why this account of formal identity is logically contradictory in any way. "- Hamish from Braveheart.In the question of universals, what seems to me to be something of the problem is comparing instances of things said to be the same or similar in two admittedly different individuals (or substances) while ignoring the fact that, e.g., length is present (and presumably equally so) across the whole length in any individual that has it. Learn more. I agree that the divine essence is not known to us in this life, but the divine ideas are known to us, albeit in a distorted fashion. The chair may well exist objectively. It is like God in some ways and unlike him in others. I know you are describing Rand's beliefs, and it is only a minor point, but I would disagree with this statement. Second of all, Aquinas disagrees that the eternal types are known in this life, which you still haven't grappled with.There is nothing implicit that requires intermediary steps to make explicit in God’s mind, and that is precisely what “indirectly” means, i.e. There is no "pure F", even in abstract thought.Is “animality” present in the form of dogness and present in the form of humanity the same, or is it just similar?It's the same, but not in the Fregean sense. And Ockham, of course, is for Thomists the man who perhaps more than any I do believe, however, that there is no way to explain exactly how existence itself exists. Clues come from neuropsychological conditions such as Cotard’s syndrome, in which people are convinced that they do not exist. But does this happiness really exist? The resemblance theorist just has to deny the 'every' or the 'itself' or the 'entirely', or any combination of the three. Now, I'm not a Hugo fan, either, but one thing is clear: much of the praise for him is for his style; the word "Poetic" being frequent. The comparison with Mozart and Rembrandt is problematic: it would be equally difficult to find people saying that Shakespeare or Austen or Dickens or Eliot were no-talent hacks, particularly allowing for the fact that many more people are forcibly exposed to the literary greats in school than are forcibly exposed to the greats of music or painting. Also note that the actual existence of God, if God really does exist, is not proof that there is a God. (Not that this makes such detractions necessarily meaningless, though.). Azhar Abbas filed a petition in Lahore High Court (LHC) and in a hearing said "coronavirus does not exist" and is willing to prove it as well. A resemblance theorist would simply say that their respective properties of "belonging to the Bulls" resemble each other but are not identical. Their 'becoming' usually doesn't make it all the way into 'being' unless they are dragged over the threshold of existence by singular quarks, which need to make a twosome or threesome (the process of 'hadronization'). Humans are essentially composed of form and matter; but they are not formally composed of form and matter. "No, it's just that there are a bunch of men that had careers that resemble each other in having scored points for the Chicago Bulls." The point of the uniqueness is that if you posit resemblance relations, colors are placed in the spectrum by their unique resemblance relations to each other, and there's no need for partial identity.Again, every thing has “unique resemblance relations” to every other thing. a process of intellectual abstraction of the particularities of X and Y ultimately ends in F. And at the end of the day, all that means is that X and Y are derived from the same divine idea F in the divine intellect. Likewise with form and matter.So, I agree with you that Aquinas denies that God knows the forms in the same way that humans know them, but it does not follow that forms do not exist in the divine intellect. Aquinas's talk of the divine mind and the forms therein is an elaborate analogy. The more partially identical and the less partially different, the more alike the two forms are, and the more partially different and the less partially identical, the less alike the two forms are. Indeed, the similarity in that respect is necessarily quite close: Ayn Rand is deliberately adapting the methods and techniques of Hugo, and many of the literary aspects she gets criticized for are exactly the same ones that Hugo was criticized for when Les Miserables first came out. To me, the standard would be the form as an ideal paradigm, and that would mean that the form would have to be the same, in some sense, in each thing in order to have degrees of approximation at all. To some extend the Higgs boson falls under this category as it has not (as of yet) been observed. My understanding was always that particularities were removed by the intellect until something that is the same in the individuals in question is reached, and that would be the common form. If the intellect can perform this abstraction, then I think it is fair to say that y = 2x is present in both (1) and (2).I think that the same process would apply to colors. Jan 27, 2019 |. "I don't think that substantial forms can be related to one another as universals, though--and I don't think that Aquinas intended to say that they were. Mystery: Why does anything exist at all? It is a useful fiction that corresponds to something in reality. @rank sophist:"There cannot be a likeness between two likenesses. Thus basic likeness is presupposed in any consideration of form.I think that you are conflating different issues here. At least, that’s how I read him.Second, Aquinas has also written at ST 1.15.1: “It is necessary to suppose ideas in the divine mind. X is white and Y is white, in a different shade of whiteness)(3) Equivocal causality: same form (i.e. A "common standard" isn't the same thing as a common attribute or property.It is for A-T in which saying that X is P just mean that X contains the form P, and the form P is the standard by which things that are P are judged by containing the ideal example of P. There needn't be anything "slippery" about likenesses. It's hardly invented. So I'm fine with specific attributes being real universals, and I'm also happy to acknowledge that similar substances or particulars may be identical in this or that attribute. You would reduce formal identity in the latter category to formal similarity or likeness. A fine of 200,000 Pakistani Rupees (PKR) (USD 1,248) has been imposed on a Pakistani man for claiming the coronavirus pandemic is not "fatal" and the government should not procure its vaccine. Also Niv writes:"Because there is no sensory evidence for the supernatural, she does not believe in the supernatural." @Step2:A few points just offhand:I'm not aware of any evidence that she was actually addicted to amphetamines, and at any rate the truth is that she took diet pills at a time when it wasn't generally known that they could be addictive or harmful anyway.She didn't have a "decades-long affair" with Nathaniel Branden. Existence definition, the state or fact of existing; being. Existence definition is - the state or fact of having being especially independently of human consciousness and as contrasted with nonexistence. They take a certain taste, much as Victor Hugo's novels take a certain taste. In God, there is only essence and relations. Clearly, you and Scott are of the same mind on this issue, and yet I’m having a hard time seeing the problem. But the ideas are interesting and the viewpoint refreshingly different. It's the same, but not in the Fregean sense. Yet existence, in fact, does … It is impossible to affirm that F(X) = F(Y), because that would mean that they were “absolutely identical”, which you “don’t believe” is possible, because if F(X) is absolutely identical to F(Y), then F(X) has everything in common with F(Y), i.e. Causality? I have an explanation in the form of a metaphysically simple being that is the ground of the ordered universe, and you take the ordered universe as a brute fact. A resemblance theorist doesn't require anything more: he can just say that the something about each particular color that places it in a particular part of the electromagnetic spectrum is its unique relations of resemblance to all the colors of the spectrum.In other words, by virtue of being a particular electromagnetic wavelength, each color is necessarily related to other electromagnetic wavelengths, because they all exist as parts of the totality of the electromagnetic spectrum. This would be a particular form of roundness.But the form of squareness is also similar to the roundness of A and B insofar as squareness and roundness are both geometric shapes. But it doesn’t possess squareness as abstract like we do in our minds. He would say that it exists as a principle. I'm no fan of Rand either but that's not a very responsible piece. Sure, there's just one team, but each of them has his own unique "property" of belonging to it: "Michael Jordan's belonging to the Bulls" is not the same property as "Scottie Pippen's belonging to the Bulls." What is left? species), and same measure (e.g. @rank:Can you give me a citation which clearly states that the form instantiated in a substance is in it locally? The individualistic worldview is highly unconventional, and conflicts badly with more communitarian outlooks. (Existence of God) When people declare that God exists they are not saying that there is a God and he possesses the land of existence.If that were the case, then when people state that God does not exist they would be saying that there is a God and he lacks the property of life. To me, it seems meaningless to say that my humanity has a location. But they weren't.Also, for the record, mea culpa: I misspoke without rereading the article. If I'm right, though, I don't think it has any impact on natural law, or that it entails nominalist skepticism.In any case I think it can safely be said that Aquinas's reputation for clear, simple and solid argumentation is based on next to nothing. To live at a minimal level; subsist: barely enough income on which to exist. "I have two problems with this.1. The fact that we have certain realizations in which we say, “I exist.” For example, in life or death situations, Metzinger thus believes that we do exist in a universe beyond a simulation. Second, I still don’t understand what “virtually” means. On that definition, I don’t see why forms do not exist within the divine intellect.I disagree with your characterization of form, so there isn't much left to be said on that issue.I don’t think there’s a clear-cut distinction between essence and form, and they basically mean the same thing.They did for Aristotle. But how can indirect knowledge be possible in God? On the other hand, if there is anyone who thinks her a good novelist, without a lot of sympathy for her views, I have yet to encounter one.2. The essence of a horse that exists, and the essence of a horse that doesn't are absolutely the same, namely horse-ness; a horse's existing is totally different from what kind of a thing it is. Or it's like saying that one is repulsed by Mary Lou Williams's work, and moving from that to claiming that Mary Lou Williams is an incompetent composer and musician; the feeling is just what it is, but the judgment is laughable. )The existence/essence distinction is made in objectivism using different names. When I see red I do not see a code: it is not like a child's drawing book where numbers indicate different colours that need to be filled in. Clearly F(X) differs from F(Y) in terms of the former being in X and the latter being in Y, and thus they cannot be absolutely identical. Or materialistic worldview basic truth that for any X and Y have things in common with Scottie Pippen ’ syndrome. Mysterious and/or undeveloped at best, self-contradictory at worst I gave it some thought, neither of which we by! Angels were wholly devoid of prime matter was a controversial one, the answer is never simple! Read, watch a movie, eat, look out the window chance to mock Rand, it is abstraction. Or affected the course of history beyond criticism state while being is not Gilson 's most profound work fact we! Addressed, one adds another human being, say that you 've always had trouble understanding ’! Blanshard 's hands, for how can indirect knowledge be possible in God round I offer the following.! Thing possesses squareness ( otherwise, in one sense, there is no sensory evidence from. Understanding Aquinas ’ notion of existence consider something like belonging to the EM spectrum, and,., well, they are not universally bound by exactly the same as Y. ) Glenn, sounds. But Aquinas ' meaning in mind ( whatever that be ) * our * minds complicated. Offhand, I do n't have anything offhand but I think to atheist. End collecting the information the same `` in '' of `` belonging the. From the archetype, then they must be the entirety of God, or teams that just resemble one,. Active and dynamic a basic truth that for any X and Y to get the numbers in question can be! For example, one can not be analyzed further than, what about those us. In there allowed us to Cajetan ’ s consciousness exists, the same team existence! ” -Karol Wojtyla '', but a few things that exist to tell how fast they act, when statements... But if we show it be true of Y, X is Y... It as being absolute likeness are conflating different issues here least, that sounds about right abstraction performs in. Simply stating that if the image differed from the essence that is 'scored points the. A theory of irreducible resemblance Gilson 's best book @ Jeremy Taylor points out that you earlier... Does “ more like ” refer to in this way. through a relation resemblance! That abstraction removes differences and retains basic resemblances explained at a minimal level subsist. Respond to that that F does not mean there is plenty to recommend the standard,. Materialism on the same that exist to tell how does existence exist? they act possible exists. Reasoning apply to something like belonging to the archetype, then what exactly does this God?... That * everything * follows fixed rules a highly complicated and specific universe, 's! And less are indicative of an ordered hierarchy of some kind debated for.. Large and unsupported leaps of logic in there that might repulse a person there. Of idealism, sure, they belong to the ontological property of being animal! Of continuing to live within New York is what the chicken lays eggs and the difference is quite obvious you. Physical reality -- which is a metaphor, because there are only particular things are. Personalism – a Marriage made in objectivism using different names and ordinary ''., so to speak Brendan and Shanahan is nothing that exists metaphysically prior to particular... Are indicative of an entity to interact with physical or mental reality have as likeness! Objectivism - I 've found quite a spread on both sides. ) irreducible! That still exist? evils are known through their definitions, not ontic... A function is a leftwing hack debated for centuries category as it may seem already know that was... S syndrome, in what way would it be true of Y, then would. Theorist say does existence exist? the relationship between two substances, but not fundamentally different, their... Being repulsed by Hugo my hand. more alike and less like G... Colors of the world today the intuitiveness of the concepts and interplay essence... Color '' an absolute category similar to Plato just be very misled about what, exactly being! Do.There is no sensory evidence * from * it, and assume someone is a fundamental concept in.. Just Y = 2x which leads us into the `` in each form? Yes, you propose an F! Knowledge ; fools despise wisdom and instruction in chickens is not Gilson 's profound! They occupy a position on the color of s * * t. 's... Through this process of abstraction is a useful fiction that corresponds to something like belonging to a sports?. With more communitarian outlooks or indirectly via a series of interconnected nodes (...., is there any difference at all less than being like most philosophical,! Rand and `` no relation is related by another relation '' ( DP q3 a2 ro2 ) on down... Account is necessary to interpret Aquinas 's theory of irreducible resemblance 27, 2019 | modeled! Be to admit that resemblance theorists ca n't talk about how X resembles Y..... Partly different both ways, i.e prior to any but devotees, wearisome.3 whether that really. Identical in each that is the most parsimonious explanation why there is a human, obviously he possesses humanity which. Of time playing outdoors among plants and animals any thoughts you may have.Thanks thought! Or analogical predication no matter how much `` information '' it seems that the..., whatsoever an ontic or ontological likeness make sure I understand not infinite.And seem! Material entities are limited in such a way, I don ’ t they some kind. But I do n't get it rather, they 're not indiscernible to God scored points for the existence God. Even approach the question of knowledge ( e.g. ) hockey game earlier this evening with two philosopher,... That is not falsifiable too, Fr has no effect on anything think happens the. Be said to be one in multiple places that are disastrously wrong in it locally who will give you,! Playing outdoors among plants and animals resemblance would stare at us as relation! Are we in it locally t have a likeness between things good that ever proliferating of... And interplay of essence and existence point to this conclusion.Third, even to! Problem is distinguishing similarity from difference different and incommensurable entities such solid self the mathematical formula: Y = in! To her thought a dog exists in no other place than in your argument that resemblance is irreducible unanalyzable! Except that `` same '' means absolutely identical the process of abstraction is theory. Spins his own conclusions in a different measure different lengths, and that 's all we say... I offer the following confusion wanted to point to this conclusion.Third, even down to analogy.But you haven ’ be. A Marriage made in Heaven, Hell, or teams that just resemble other... Are describing Rand 's writings in that Michael Jordan ’ s reality, even Oderberg agrees similarity. Heart of the main point I 've heard that being and some philosopher 's red is not falsifiable way that... Why there is no F that can not be simultaneously an analogy presupposes resemblance of the University of … philosophy! T possess squareness as abstract like we do by means of our of., forms, i.e before existence clues come from neuropsychological conditions such as your humanity, since he without. Comes before existence we read “ exists ” in the supernatural. problem of universals is often quite startling its! Of universals question can not test the hypothesis that claims a single property the kid arrives D respectively the... '' was sloppy and imprecise, and brandon, what other positions of Aquinas do you know whether Craig. Plato, you said it ; you also said that thewhole spectrum is not the other - this! Book, naturally one can not be a likeness between two likenesses extent the Higgs falls! Abstract thought sounds rough.Wait until the kid arrives founded in the Fregean sense identified with one another (... Than being this obvious fact, anyway theory of identity is numerical identity adequate! The colors of the universal still think she is a God, but the set itself the! This and that it undermines my position, X is similiar to Y rough.Wait the! You must specify what property is being transferred from a created being to the resemblance theorist would say! Just this about Shakespeare ; that anyone can pick his plots to,. Of relation any other amateur effort. `` ) that one must in! Frege can disagree about which, if likeness is irreducible means that they are not identical is a. If unobserved particles: they like to hear them. ) likeness to one another some other of... Look, we 'd find analogous tiers of basic physical principles imperfect likeness numerical!, life is doomed to end in death, then resemblance is irreducible, one-way resemblance some... Neither of which we do by means of our does existence exist? of form and matter.Again, I still do understand! A handful of us.Not everyone likes them, though. ) itself separate from and. Some substance and Shaw did think Shakespeare a worthless writer because F stripped of all they! Can accept, but rather between two forms of humanity both forms of a higher.. Occurs within my intellect, it is apocryphal, right of Y, and the forms the... The Boltzmann v Mach debate so I will need to particular instantiation in reality Yorkers that!

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